Bag drops and Paris-Brest-Paris

- Hey everybody, tonight we have Deb Banks with us and we're going to be talking about specifically bag drop service and a bunch of other things. But first let me introduce Deb. Deb Banks, she's been a Rusa member since April of 2007. She's a two-time finisher of PBP in 2007 and 2011. She finished that famously wet and moist PBP in 2007. She's served on the Rusa board from 2016 until 2021 and was VP for four of those years, should have been president once. Heads the Rusa gravel committee, so she is responsible for making Rusa dirty. And she has been the RBA, the Regional Brevet Administrator of the California Davis region since September of 2017. The reason why I'm asking Deb today is to be with us today is because she ran a bag drop service at PBP 2023. And we will get into the experience there as we go through the topics here. But first off, Deb, why would somebody need bag drop service and why wouldn't they need it? - Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Rob, for having me and hi, everybody. Great to be here. Why would somebody want bag drop service? I don't think anybody has to have bag drop service, but it is a great insurance policy for carrying, for having gear out on the course for unexpected things that might happen to you. When I did PBP, I was actually at the start line more than the two times that I finished, but it was nice to know that I was heading out and I was gonna get to my bag and I'd get fresh clothes, always wonderful, batteries for lights, if that's what I needed, or batteries for Di2, which I never used 'cause it came after me, or those kinds of things that you don't wanna schlep on your bike 'cause it really slows you down. But it does mean that you don't get them until you get to where bag drop is located. So there are some people that like to put panniers on the back of their bike or carry some form of luggage and carry everything with them, which makes them completely self-supported, which is great. But others like to be able to have a little lighter bike and then have stuff out on the course that they know they can get to. That's where bag drop comes in and it's been wildly successful. I think we had over 300 bags, just American bags when we did bag drop in 2023. - So you did PVP 2007 and we both did it in 2011. - Yes. - What do you remember of bag drop service there? - Well, not to throw anybody under the bus, but my first bag drop was 2007. I couldn't find my bag. Everything was put in Lodiak and it was put underneath this awning at this big school that is the control, I believe. And it was dark and you couldn't see anything. And of course, everything was sopping wet 'cause it was a year with really, really bad rain, sideways rain and really bad weather. So you come in and you're really tired and then there's just sea of black bags and duffels and things like that. Really hard to find your bag and really hard to access it and then no place to really sit down in a dry area to kind of go through it. You know, it's just a mess. And 2011, I don't remember it being up that much better. Except-- - No, it really wasn't. - But Dan Chidone was there helping and so you'd come in and at least I knew Dan. He was the RBA in Davis and I knew Dan 'cause by then I was out in California and I actually succeeded Dan as the RBA. So I knew him and I could at least say, "Dan, it's Deb, help me find my bag. "It's this color and Dan would help me." Oh, seven, you were on your own. It's wading through all the bags. - Right, so having had this experience yourself as a rider and then having been the Bag Drop Service, what did you learn about what you wanted to tell people about solving that particular problem? - We made such a huge difference and it just went really easy. When people dropped their bags off, they purchased our service, they dropped their bags off prior to PDP, right at Ramballe, we gave them two tags and they had the same number on each tag. It was color-coded depending on what hour you were starting, 90, 84, 80, et cetera. And then it had a number on it and we put one of those tags on your wrist and one of those tags on your bag. So you showed up at Ludiac and you just hold up your wrist and go, I'm blue 395, let's say that. And we had taken all the bags in the space at Ludiac and sorted them by color and then sorted them numerically. So I knew where the 300s were and I would either take you with me back there and lead you to the 300s and then say, you know your bag better than I do 'cause we've all stood at the carousel and an airport and can pick your bag out amidst the sea of all those black bags, you'd find your bag and you'd go and then do whatever you were gonna do with it and then return it to us and we checked you in and we checked you out or and then back in with your bag. So we had a whole system that just made it a lot easier. Nobody's bags got lost, everybody got their bag and every, and this, our backdrop was inside, so it was lit. So the room was lit up and you could access things much more easier than in '07 and '11. - Yeah, so again though, this was in Ludiac? - This was in Ludiac, we did backdrop once. So you got your bag in Ludiac and then got whatever you wanted, you went out to breast, came back to Ludiac and you had your bag again and then we schlepped them back to round VA. - Right, so let me ask what motivated you to be the person offering bag drop service at the last PVP? - Yeah, it was funny, as a result of this injury that I have that keeps on giving, I'm no longer able to ride 1200 kilometer bike rides. But you know, PVP is such a big deal and it's big for all the Americans and there's so much energy around it that it's hard not to wanna be a part of the circus even if you're not there. And I have a big streak of volunteering in me and I also run a nonprofit bicycle organization that does something called bike valet. And what that is is we trade a tag for your bike and then we park it for you while you go off into an event. You give us your tag, we give you your bike and I thought, that's bad drop right there. It was like so clear to me. It was like, I know how to do this and I know how to do it immediately better than what we experienced in 2011 and '07. So I rallied a few friends and Mark, my partner, and we talked it through and we organized this plan to do Bag Drop. And then we were able to work with the Davis Bike Club who I was the RBA of at the time. And then I created a website, started taking money, provided information about Bag Drop and then we showed up in France. And it was really fun to be able to be there because when you're riding, whether you know people or not or you're Charlie Millering or it's your first time and you're really struggling working your way around the course, it's always great to see a friendly face. - Absolutely. - And we were friendly faces. We all, all of us that worked it had done PDP. We knew, we knew on a lot of the people that were riding and if we didn't know them, we got to know them and it was just nice to be able to ask them how are you doing, what can we do? Here's your bag. I mean, there's a little bit of love on top of just, here's your bag, get out of my hair. - Exactly, yeah. Which I should mention from my experience using Bag Drop service, wasn't always part of the package. So thumbs up for that here. So let me ask you this question. What is the thing or things that you would like riders using a Bag Drop service to know about the people that are organizing the Bag Drop service? - Oh, well, I'm not sure about how it's gonna go, this next PDP, but it's nice to know that at least for us, we made sure that we let everybody know, hey, we've been in your shoes. We've all done PDP. So we were all on Sien's and have had the experience. We also did a lot of work about what to put in your bag, ahead of time, what are some tips, pro tips about having a good Bag Drop experience. And then, give us some slack. I mean, I'll be honest, we were awake as much as everybody else is doing Bag Drop. I mean, we didn't get a whole lot of sleep. And our work for Bag Drop extended before the first 90-hour wave 'cause we took bags in for two days ahead of time, went out to Ludiak. We were there for three and a half days or whatever, then went back to round BA and handed bags out for two more days. So my work was a lot longer than the riders. And you hope and respect and decency and thank yous, and by and large, we got a lot of love and support. People were not too nasty. - Yeah, it's like so many things volunteering that most of the people are extremely appreciative of it. But sometimes there's a little bit of friction involved there. - Yeah, a little bit of an edge. - Yeah, right. So, you know, my advice to people is maybe think twice as they're making use of the service. You know, I totally expected you to say exactly how much you were working and how little sleep you might've gotten. That's the kind of thing I was hoping. - About two hours a night, once the ride started, which was not a lot. - No, no, some riders got more asleep than that, like you said. So let's talk about, you know, you mentioned offering to people some kind of a suggestion about what to include. Let's talk about what those things would be and start off by saying, so the size of the bag is not infinite. You know, the only way you're gonna be able to pull this off is if you can fit all those bags in your vehicles going out there. So let's talk about that as a starting point and then what you're gonna put into that specifically sized bag. - Sure, we, and I've got my old website up right here. We ask that bags be about two cubic feet, which is roughly the size of a small to medium duffel bag or backpack. A small backpack, like a day backpack, if you're gonna go hiking for the day, not a backpack like you're going out to hike the Sierras or the John Muir Trail, like not that, small day pack, right? We ask that we think that it's really smart if they're bright and colorful. Back to my 2007 experience, or there was a year when Russa bought a bunch of duffel bags and so they were white duffel bags that said Russa USA on 'em or randomness USA on 'em, red handlebars. Well, they all look exactly the same. So then you're in that problem of I can't find my bag. So a brightly colored bag or something that you know that you put on it that makes it stand out that you are gonna be able to find is really important. The best bag that we had was, and I had a picture of this and I put it in, we did an article in AR four years ago. - American Roundabout Magazine. - Yeah, in American Roundabout, four years ago. And the best picture was a little Pokemon gold, sparkly, glittery little kid's backpack. And that was fantastic 'cause you know, could easily find, there's only one of those who can easily find it, right? So it has to have secure zippers and buckles and it has to be structurally strong. You know, sometimes I've run now a couple of 1200Ks and we have bad drop in our longer rondonnets and sometimes people show up with like a shopping bag with a string wrapped around it. Totally inappropriate 'cause nothing stays in it, right? - Right, exactly. - So it needs to fit inside your bag and nothing should be strapped to the outside, not shoes, not a jacket, not a flag, not an extra tire. All needs to fit neatly into your bag or whatever it is. It's great if it's waterproof or water resistant. We didn't know that we would be inside of a room. So if we had been outside like our '07 and '11, you know, things would have gotten a lot wetter and that's not great. So you also wanna put all of your stuff that's inside your bag in a Ziploc bag, right? In the event that it's outside and sitting in the rain for a while, you know, the bag might get wet, water's gonna seep in through the zippers, but everything will stay dry if it's inside Ziploc bags and also easy to then pull out. Oh, here's day two with all the stuff in it for day two. Here's my, you know, batteries or batteries and, you know, redundant light bag. Pull that out 'cause I know I need it. So organizing within your bag is also really important. - You know, that pays off. That's exactly what I did for my bag in 2019. - Yeah, we think that putting an air tag or some kind of a tile, these wonderful things that those little gizmos now that basically let you know where your bag is at all the time, it's really helpful. And that's just great in case, and you should throw it in your bike box also so that you know where your bike is when you're traveling over there. And that it should be light enough to be able to be picked up with one hand and/or put over your, you know, over your shoulders. We had a couple of bags that were so heavy that the owner of the drop bag couldn't pick it up. And that's like, you know, obviously not great. Not great. - Oh, in a two cubic foot bag, how could it, how could that be? - It was not a two cubic foot bag. It was a much larger duffel bag. We shamed them for, I mean, we gave them a lot of grief about it, but in this instance, that person had massive dietary issues. And so they're carrying a lot of their own kind of food and things that they can eat. And I'm not talking about energy food and glyph bars and powdered milk, you know, powder and, you know, all the stuff, energy food. I'm talking about regular food that they would not, that is important for them. And they would not be able to find out on the course in France. However, it was so freaking heavy. And when they picked their drop bag up at the very end, it was still really heavy. So they overpacked the thing. So that would be my last tip is do not overpack it. You don't need the redundancy of five lights. You need the redundancy of maybe two lights or one light. Right? Three tubes, not eight tubes because you can buy tubes on the course. - Oh yes, yes. - So, you know, thinking that stuff through, but you're nervous, right? And you wanna make sure you have your stuff. It's okay, you're in a country where you can buy things. It's readily available if you don't happen to have it right there. - So during the course of our conversation so far, we've mentioned Lodiak as one of the controls. And under the old route, Lodiak was 449 kilometers out from the start. - Yes. - And then it was basically one day's riding from there out to breast and then back again. Where you have your bag again. And then of course, 449 kilometers back to the finish here. - Right. - The new route doesn't do that. - Yes. - The new route only visits Lodiak in one time on the way back. - Yes. - So what do you think the challenges are for somebody offering bag drop service for PPP 2027? - Yeah, there's only two choices. One is have one bag drop and it's in Tintiniaq. The plus side of that is it's easier. One bag, it's in one place. You know, once you find it, you know where it's gonna be the next time you see it. That's great. But the downside of that is Tintiniaq is not 440, whatever it is you just said. It's closer to Rambeye. And that means you get to it sooner and then on the return you get to it much later. So once you leave Tintiniaq, you've got a much longer time to get to breast and then get back to the bag and have to weigh that into your calculus, right? It's not the end of the world, but it's something to remember and to be thoughtful about. The other idea is for whoever runs bag drop to have two teams. And one is at maybe a Tintiniaq and the other is someplace else on the course, on the return back from breast. It's not a good idea for whoever does this. I've already thought this through. To have one team start in Tintiniaq, let's say it's there or halfway or a third of the way, similar to whatever. And then finish and then go to the other place and set up shop there. You'll need two teams, one in each place to set up because riders are coming in a wide variety of times and their speeds, et cetera. And you may not finish in one place before the other one is set up. And then you're putting some riders who are really relying on that second bag at risk. That's not fair. - Yeah, I can see how that might be bordering on the impossible to pull off. - It just depends on how many people. Well, yeah, to move from point A to point B. But two separate teams, two vehicles, bags in one vehicle, bags in the other can totally work. - Yeah. So there's one question that you foreshadowed the answer to already. And you know that I'm going to be asking, but before we get to that, is there anything that I haven't asked you? - Yeah, there's one thing that I think is really important. It's one of our learnings. And it's a little bit of a story. When we left Ludiak to head back to Rambouillet, there were a number of people that hadn't made it to Ludiak back, which was closed and we didn't leave Ludiak until like four or five hours after the control closed. So we're closing up everything and we're taking everybody's bags back to Rambouillet. Now there were some people that were still out on the course and hadn't gone to Ludiak yet. And I got a phone call from someone saying, "Hey, I'm just about, I'm a 60K out from Ludiak. Are you still there?" The answer is no, we're not. We're heading to Paris for all the other bags to get them there. And what the person most needed was the small cable that they needed to be able to charge their garment or one of their lights or something. And they just had put it in their drop bag. So one thing to make sure that is not in your drop bag, maybe there's redundancy in your drop bag, but you gotta make sure that those small cables or batteries that you need, if you're using DI2 to carry a second battery, take that with you, take those tiny little cables. Those aren't gonna weigh you down, but they could be a showstopper for you if you realize your battery crafts out or nothing's working for you and there's no cables. We actually talked her to getting, finding a technology store where you could buy some, but she was pretty upset and upset with us because we weren't there and we had to go. And I chatted with her about a month later and she called me again and said, that was a really big learning for me and I really appreciate it. But boy in the heat at the moment, we felt bad, but we were like, we had to go. And there are ways to mitigate that out on the course. - Yeah. - So that's one small thing. - Yeah. So somebody you know as well as I do told me this once that kind of fits in with the story that you just told is that he recognized when he was riding PBP laid into the event that everything annoyed him. And, you know, he had to stop and tell himself, no, it's not that I'm surrounded by things that are wrong and bad and people that are wrong and bad. It's, I don't have the ability to deal with things as well when I'm this tired. - Yes. - So yeah, your point about thinking things through and planning for not having all your emotional facilities available to you in a situation like that is a good idea. - Yeah. It also falls into, on the outbound, people were pretty efficient with their drop bag. - Yeah. - But on the return, everybody's a whole lot more tired. - Exactly. - And they're kind of pulling stuff out. Do I need this? I don't know, I should eat something. You know, they're going on and on and on. - Or why can't I find this? - Yeah, we're like, come on, come on, come on. That's where a little tough love came in from, you know, people that had been in that place before. - Yeah. - Get what you need, put everything back in, let's go. You know, yeah. Okay, so that question that you know I'm going to ask, are you gonna do this again? - It's a big maybe. I was a hard no, we've been a hard no for the last two years, like absolutely not. And if there was someone that wanted to take it on, we'd be happy to talk about it and talk it through. I am not in a position to run it through the Davis Bike Club again. So we need an organization where we could run the finances through and hopefully I have an idea on that, but I haven't talked to them about it. I kind of feel like I need to put a proposal together and present it and all that kind of jazz. We're not a hard no and I'm not a hard no, but I'm not a definite yes either. - Yeah, well, I think the message that that should be sending to people is that this is not a trivial thing that is done in order to offer this service. - Yeah, it's a big commitment for us. There were a lot of moving parts even during it that we didn't know that almost caught us off guard. Some forms we had to fill out at the last minute and wonderfully Mark, our partner, stayed up very late the night before the start to get this thing completely filled out with all of the people that had signed up with us and we ran to get it into HQ in Rambier before noon. We learned a lot too, so we can do it better ourselves if we know how to do it, but there were some moving parts that surprised us too, so there's a lot. - Okay, so the last bit here that I do with all of the people that I've been interviewing is I have five questions that I wanna ask and just fire off the questions and fire back the answers here. - Okay. - Understand that some of these are directed toward a certain set of people here, so maybe they don't directly apply to you, but let's do our best here. - All right. - Okay, so are you going to PVP in 2027? - In most of the other people I'm asking this as if they were a rider, but you've already answered that question. - Maybe. - Maybe, yeah. So from your experience of having been a rider and having attended these things, I'm asking people, the second question is describe the best bike for PVP. - The bike that fits you the most and is the most comfortable. - Yeah, exactly. So yeah, that's my trick question in this here. I don't want people to be giving a make-and-model. - That's absurd. - Yeah, to drive home the point that there are so many different ways to get this done and lots of ways for you to get it done properly for yourself. So when you were a rider on PVP, name one thing that you could not do without on PVP. Probably shami cream. - Okay, all righty. - Yeah. - So from memory from having done this twice around here, which control would you say is the best control? - Ooh, that's a hard one. Ooh, that's a hard one. Which is the one that has the cafeteria in it? - Where you go down to eat in the cafeteria and all the, and the kids serve. - Oh, Valan Lajuel. - Valan, but that's my favorite, I think. - So many people have named that, but they haven't had the name of the control. - Yeah. - The tip of their tongue. Yeah, that's a great one. Unfortunately, we only get to visit that once on PVP 2027, but we do get to visit it. I believe it's on the return as well. - I got another answer though, for the other question. - Sure. - What thing must you have? Besides shami cream, a very lightweight towel that is let drys really easily 'cause that two brown paper at the showers, they do stick to that. So BYOT, but don't bring a beach towel. - Right, yeah. Yeah, I think sporting goods stores sell towels like that. - Those little quick drying towels are great. - Yeah, yeah. Okay, and then the last question, back to controls here. What was the favorite food of yours at the controls? - Oh, potage, that potato soup, potato soup, or whatever that was. Hands down, I had that at every control. - Yeah, yeah. Me too, that was one of my favorites. I had Mortano Parish outbound. That was my first meal. And they had potage and puree. And I had a mountain of mashed potatoes. Yeah, absolutely. - So good. - Yeah. Well, that's it for my questions here. And I think that wraps up our discussion about Drop Bags Dead. Thanks so much for taking time to chat with me tonight. And we will see you all on the next installment. - Great, you're welcome. Have a great time and good luck, everyone. - Yeah, yeah.