Putting in the miles

- That always sounds so ominous. - I know, I was like, oh yeah, we are recording. Hey everyone, this is another installment in the PBP prep video series that we're doing. And today we have Lisa Charlebois, who is a Randonore with the San Francisco Randonors. So she's local to me. She's also completed several 1200Ks around the world. You can tell us which ones in a moment, but there's more than one. And then she also has a very energetic Instagram channel. And I really encourage you to take a peek at her stuff. She'll tell us her handle in a moment. And today, what Lisa and I are going to be talking about is the physical preparation for going to PVP. And specifically, we're going to talk about the training and following the guidelines and advice from a coach. This is definitely not the only way to do this, but I think that a lot of people have questions about this sort of stuff and you can listen in and find out whether something resonates with you. Do you want to do this all on your own? Do you want to seek out somebody to help you get prepared? Lisa has used a trainer and I used a trainer, a coach in 2019 for my very successful for an old guy completion of PVP back then. So here is Lisa. - Hi, yeah, great to be here and thanks for the invite. Yes, I do have an Instagram where I do a lot of content about randonoring and also just cycling in general. So it's called Hustle and a Half. I don't know why it just is like, sometimes you do these names and just show up. - And you're stuck with them there. - Yeah, pretty much. And so yeah, I guess to start, I did get a coach. So I, my first 1200 was PVP 2023. And we kind of came to it a bit late. Like I think I did, you know, I didn't even do a full series. It was just, we did a 600 to get in the year before. - Right, so that would have been 2022. - Yeah, so it was like dive right into the deep end. I think I did a 300. Yeah, actually my first purvey was the 300K mixed terrain, which was insane. - Full gas. - Yeah, so yeah, I think I blew through a brake pad at one point, like the whole thing bananas anyway. So yeah, so I did get a coach very early on and I've actually had the same coach since. So I've worked with her consistently. And to Rob's point, I've done now PVP in 23. Then I did the Midnight Sun Randonay in North, like Sweden and Norway, it's a 1200K. I did the 1,000 kilometers gamblers from Reno to Vegas. I did the Humboldt, sorry, the Eugene to Santa Rosa 1200 with the Humboldt Randoners. And there's something probably that I'm forgetting. But anyways, there's been a ton of stuff. And then this year I'm gonna do the 1400K Lajog. So that's kind of my event. Yeah, I'm kind of stoked on that. - Right, so when in the process exactly did you get a coach and why did you settle on getting a coach? So I'm assuming this was in 2022? - Yes, oh wait, once the PVP thing got floated, which it turns out it was my husband's 50th birthday in August. So PVP was the 22nd and his birthday was the 19th. And he's like, this is a great idea for my birthday. So I think it was probably around June. And so I got a coach right away and I was like, okay, what do I do and how do I do this? And the funny part is that she was also a little bit perplexed 'cause she's never coached anyone to do a 1200 kilometer ride. I mean, I think a lot of coaches, this isn't really a discipline that they're familiar with. So in a weird way, we kind of figured it out together. And now we have a whole system and it all makes sense. - Yeah, so I can give you some personal experience. When I was looking for a coach, I approached a group and I asked them the question, do you have somebody that is experienced in coaching older athletes? Now I am a whole lot older than you. So this question was a whole lot more relevant in coming from me. And I have to laugh even today that their answer was, yeah, we have somebody that's 40 years old. - Oh God. (laughing) Cool. - Right. So I think the upshot is that like your experience, coaches don't really know exactly what this is and their sweet spot is not necessarily in coaching endurance athletes like this. - Yeah. - There are, to some extent, endurance to them might be 200 miles. - Yeah, yeah. - And this is definitely more than 200 miles because it's multiple days of 200 miles and so forth. - Yeah, no, it's very, I mean, I think a lot of times gravel events are getting a lot longer, right? 300 mile events, but to your point, it's the multi-day component that I don't think a lot of coaches really understand. And to be honest, we figured it out in training for PPP and you kind of need someone that's gonna be malleable and able to work with you and not just sort of in their sort of one-way thinking. - Do you have any idea whether there are more coaches available that now understand this today than there were back then? Or is it still to people expect a crapshoot? - I think it's probably still a crapshoot. I mean, my coach is Allie, she's amazing, she's with Fast Cat, so if you wanna call her up, just call up the Fast Cat guys and they'll help you. But I think now, maybe with PPP getting a little bit more popular, a lot of people just on my Instagram have asked me about my coach. And so I think there's maybe a little bit more understanding, but I don't know a lot of people that are like, oh, the 1200K kilometer package, yeah, it's right here. Like that thing exists. - So let me ask this question. So when you got with Allie in June of 2022 to prepare for an event that was 14 months later, did she think that that was way too much time or not enough time or where does this land? - Yeah, I mean, I think it was really, like the 600 kilometer was kind of the litmus test. It was like, let's see what happens. And to be fair, I mean, my bike wasn't right, like so many things were not optimum. And so she was kind of like, her whole philosophy was really just, how can we stack days on the bike so that you can just physically get enough training load in? So we would do almost every weekend was a back to back ride. And the rides would increase. It's like three steps forward and then one step back. So if you could kind of imagine that ladder that goes up and down, that's my training program forever. And it starts low in January, and then of course you ramp up the closer you get. As far as like enough time, I was, I'm 48 now. So I mean, I was what, 44 or something? Like whenever that was. So I wasn't a young athlete either, but I have had a pretty strong cycling background. So that was helpful. It was just really like, can I handle this volume and do we have enough time to build up the volume so that you can be successful? - Would you say the answer to that was yes? You had enough time? - I think, 'cause when we, it was really like the 600, the SFR 600 is incredibly challenging. So I think that's actually a really good test. And I did it, it hurt. And so yes, it was enough time. Did I have a great time? Not really, it was kind of horrible. - Right, right. - So yeah. - Yeah, so there is that aspect to preparation. And what I'm getting at here is, do I really like this? - Yeah. - Am I going to like doing that? - Yeah. - And that might be part of the results of training. So yeah, with 14 months, you feel like you had enough time to train your trainer and to be ready yourself? - Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, it was, there was a lot of anxiety. Like we didn't know, even like, we figured it out. A big thing that we did was, we created a simulation weekend. Oh, this was a big thing for us because not only is it volume, right? Like you're doing your 400Ks back to back, but then you're not sleeping. So now you got to figure out, well, can I do this volume with just four hours of sleep and five hours or three hours? So we actually simulated a weekend where I would start at night or in the, like after work. So I do a century, finish in Healdsburg around midnight or one, sleep four or five hours, do like another century, so that I had those two big days back to back, and I had that minimal amount of sleep. And then on top of it, I simulated as much as I possibly could. Like bike, exactly what I would have on the bike. I went as down, I went as specific as the clothing I was gonna wear, the nutrition I was gonna have. Like I kind of wanted every possible option so that if it failed in training, I would figure it out. And to be honest, it did. Like I forgot a DI2 cable. And then by the third day, I ran out of charge on my bike. And I was like, oh, well, that's really helpful. So yeah, so you do that nighttime session. So I'll call it the night century, four hours of sleep, a second century. And then like you had like kind of a normal sleep, and then I would bike home for another 80 miles. And that was a huge load. You figure out how you feel, and then you really start to dial in the nutrition, all the stuff. And to me, that was kind of the best prep for the 600, and then we keep doing them for every other event. - Had you ever had a cycling coach before? - No, no, this was my first ever experience with a coach. And so- - So I'm thinking though that we haven't really honed in on what was the trigger for you, Lisa, to go out and get a coach. - Oh, I don't know what I'm doing. Like I was just like, I have no clue. Like, you know, I think it was really important to understand like the principle of how much do you ride at what part of the year? Do you ride like the principle of rest days? Like, 'cause I think that's the thing, everyone gets really worried. And they're like, oh my God, I got to ride my bike like 40 hours a week. And you know, so she was able to adapt to my life. I mean, I have a work trip. I have a this, what do I do? And so just having someone that's a professional that can tell you, and then you have the confidence knowing that they understand the goal, they know what I need to do to get there, and they can reprogram my workouts so that I can be successful. - Okay, so let me present another, not exactly the same kind of approach here. As I mentioned, I had a coach in 2019, but 2019 was not my first PVP. I had gone in 2007, my DNF. I self taught myself in preparation for 2011. I basically sat down and admitted all the things that I did wrong in 2007. And I worked as much as I could to try and fix that. And I was maybe 10 years older than you are now. Roughly so, or rather your age back when you were in getting ready for 2019. And I didn't have a coach for 2007, of course. I didn't have one for 2011 and in 2015, which I look back on as my best performance on PVP. And it's my favorite PVP for different reasons than 2011 is my favorite PVP. That one was because it was the first time I was successful. But in any case, long story short here, I didn't have a coach until 2019. And the reason I got a coach is because I recognized that I had gotten to the point in my preparation where I was worried that if I didn't have somebody that was expecting me to follow through on a plan that I wouldn't follow through on that plan. That I couldn't have me be the only person that would sit there and say, okay, you've got to do this. And 'cause I know how to get around myself in that way. So I got a coach if for no other reason, then it gave me somebody to answer to. So that I did the preparation and I was early 60s then, not a spring chicken necessarily, but not as old as I will be in 2027. And I think that it was vital, essential for my success getting that coach. But I think that you and I both can look around at our cohorts and see that there's a bunch of people around us that they're just as successful, if not more so than us. They haven't had a coach and they just, they have some other way of getting prepared for this. So I guess what I'm trying to do is emphasize the fact that this isn't the only way, that you really need to start looking at yourself and decide whether getting a coach is important to you. And it's not also going to be, like I say that it was vital in my success in 2019, getting a coach isn't necessarily gonna make it a sure thing either. - Oh yeah, I mean, it comes down to personalities too. Like I like being told what to do. I like someone saying, all right, here we go. This is the week. And then I got to turn the little boxes green by doing my workouts. Like that brings me joy. It also, I like, I think the other thing that you don't think about is that, sure you can ride your bike, but there's some structure in that training. Like I do intervals on Tuesdays. On the weekends is a long ride, a stacked, like it kind of, she works with me in a way that I can still do fun group rides and I can still execute. But then she kind of gives me the tough love where she's like, listen, I need you to do your intervals on Tuesdays. Like this is not an option. And so I think to your point agreed, like by no means, I'm like a newbie compared to some of these folks that have been doing this for like decades, but it comes down to your personality. And then I think it comes down to the relationship you have with a coach. Like if you have a sort of, it depends. Like if you need someone to be there to support you and to kind of help nudge you along, it's invaluable. Some coaches can be really awful. Like all of a sudden it's like another job and it's a lot of pressure and it doesn't feel great. Like some people like that. Like it's just kind of, you know, like anything else, you got to find something that makes you feel good. Because let's be honest, nobody's paying us to do this. So like you have to enjoy it somehow. - Yeah. So you've touched on this as I've listened to you respond to the questions I put to you, but I want to focus in on this much more so than just having it be bits and pieces that somebody might collect here. Communication between you and your coach. So talk about that. - Yeah. So what happens is there's a program called Training Peaks. So it's a pretty popular software. And what she does is once a month, she puts all of my workouts into Training Peaks. And then we have a phone call and we talk about it. And I'll say whatever if I have to travel or if I'm just feeling weird. So there's an opportunity for response and, you know, conversation. And then I'm pretty good about just kind of doing my job. Like I don't need something to talk to every week. Then I just execute and I'll do the workout. And then in the workout, there's an opportunity to say how you felt. So perceived effort also sees in there my power data. So I have a power meter on my bike, heart rate data. And then I'll give her notes. I'll say, oh man, felt great. Or geez, I kind of fell apart or the last interval was really tough or whatever that feedback might be. So then she can based on that and also based on my overall Training Stress Score. So again, I might be getting a little geeky here, but all of this, all of these workouts will kind of culminate in like an overall fatigue. And so it's just a data number that's calculated. But then she can see that and the following week can either adjust my workouts or leave them alone. 'Cause sometimes you kind of want to over, you don't want to over train, but you want to push yourself past that point. Like if someone has a garment and it's over training. Some of these instances, you kind of have to go well past that in order to simulate and to kind of get your body used to these really big back to back to back days. - So amongst all of that, what I really wanted to focus in on was not the mechanics of communicating data points to your coach, but rather, well, I guess the thing that I want to bring up here is that, I'm hoping that people that get a coach have a coach that they can tell the truth to, to basically say this, I don't want to do that. You can't do that. And also by telling the truth, I haven't done that. - Yes. - So the coach that I had in 2019, he told me about how one of his clients, I guess he wasn't watching over his shoulder too intently. And he had given things to the client to do and he wasn't getting them done. And then they both got into this point where it was, it was kind of too late to do, like you couldn't catch up and I think he, this client eventually like dropped out of registering for PVP, I'm pretty sure. But my experience was that, I felt comfortable in saying, I can't do this, I don't want to do that. I remember one set of Hill repeats the outdoors that he wanted me to do. And he knew of a place for me to go do this. Well, the only time that I could get there was in the afternoon and it was crazy busy. - Yeah. - I was climbing a very steep hill as car after car after car passed me. And so I'm dealing with all this car exhaust. And I don't have the full width of my, the lane I want to be able to, like if I wobbled, I was like right up against a car. And so I basically said, no, I'm never doing that again. And we adapted. And when I would point out, hey, I got this tweak in my muscle and I'm a little worried about that. Okay, let's change everything up. - Yeah. So, I think a takeaway that people should have is that it's going to be, you're going to get out of it what you put into it and the honesty part of it, the feedback. You talked about the notes that you would send and you might include certain tidbits there. And if you got a good coach, they're going to read those notes and they're going to react to them. They're going to see if you're struggling and whatever. And also they're going to be like, hey, are you okay? I haven't heard from you. You missed three workouts. Like to your point, like you meet in the middle, right? Like you have to be invested. Nobody's going to do the work for you. So I think, you know, a lot of times people, you know, when you put money against something, like hopefully that's a motivator for you to then get the most out of that investment. If you don't do the work, I mean, no one's going to get you to the finish line other than you. And you have the roadmap in front of you. Now your job is to execute that roadmap. But also, to be honest, I mean, this coach doesn't know you at the beginning. You're going to have to build that relationship. And you build that by, they're going to say, hey, do all this stuff and then you're going to do it. And maybe it's too much or maybe it's not enough, but you have to be communicative. And to your point, you can't be afraid of the truth. Like a whole unlock of this entire thing is just being really honest with yourself and with this person. Because it's in their best interest. They want the best for you. Like that's the whole point. Like they want to see you have a great event, you know? - Right. So on that point, what I want to ask you next is as you approach to this, and you can answer this whether or not you have a coach, but what is it that you wanted the experience to be on PVP? And I have my answer, which I'll give after. - I mean, I was just so excited to cross the finish line. Like I just, I envisioned it. I visualized it. I like, I knew what it was like in my head. I was like, I know I'm going to cross the finish line and just burst into tears. Cause it's like, I've been working at this for two years. Like I don't think I've worked at anything that long in my life, like as an athletic sort of achievement. So yeah, I just, I just was, and I was so worried, like paranoid about crashes or like injuries or any of those things that can derail you. So yeah, in a way, it was just all about like, visualize the finish line and like see it and understand once you get there, like it's going to feel like the most, you know, cloud nine of your life. - So one of the things that somebody listening to us might come away with, which I don't think either of us are trying to convey is, you know, we're, you know, if you and I step back and then listen to ourselves talk about this and kind of put this in a different context, we may sound like we are preparing for a competition. - True, yeah. - And that what we want out of this is a super fast time. - Yeah. - And oh my God, I am not fast. I, my own goals for this was, you know, A, I want to finish. - Yeah. - I want to finish happy. - Yeah. - And C, I want to try and do as much of this without injury and without pain. - Yeah. - And so that's why I was, that's why I got a coach in 2019 because I didn't think that I could focus enough with all the stuff that was going on in my life outside of cycling. - Yeah. - And, you know, I didn't have the same motivation and push as I did in 2015, so, you know, I needed that outside motivation, that coach that expect reports on, you know, you know, what I had done and, and so, you know, I'm not doing this, I didn't do this in 2019 and I haven't done it in any other year to try and be faster than anything, you know. So, you know, I'm worried that as we talked about coaching and all the workouts and all that stuff that people get a message that we're not trying to give. - Yeah, no, that's really fair. - Yeah, yeah. - No, I totally-- - You've already said this isn't the only way to do it. - Yes, and to be totally fair, like my PPP finish time was 78 hours and 30 minutes, which someone might be like, oh my God, that's so fast. I mean, I didn't, I think my regret is that I didn't take more time. Like, I was so worried about being over time, I was in the 84 hour group and it was like, I had so much anxiety that that third day, I mean, it was like a 26 hour day, you know. And again, the experience was amazing, but like in 20, 27, like I might do the 90 hour group and just enjoy it and, and coach doesn't mean that you have to somehow, yeah, get some like big athletic, you know, bragging rights to your finish time. Like, I mean, I think for me, it was I need someone to give me the confidence that I'm doing all of the steps that I need to do to be successful. Like I get comfort in knowing that there's a professional that can tell me like, if you do all this stuff, physically you will be ready. I can't get you across the finish line, but at least I know that on paper it'll work. And, and, and I also like it. Like I just enjoy training, but I enjoy it in the paradigm of working with this woman. Like she's a friend. Like I've gone through both of her kids being born. I'm like, like we're connected now. So, you know, it's, I just, I think if you find that kind of relationship, like even if I didn't train for these things, I'd probably still have her as a coach 'cause I just really enjoy doing the workouts. - Yeah, nice. Okay, so what haven't I asked you about- - Oh, sorry. I mean- - That you wanna make sure that people hear. - I think, I think all of this can feel really overwhelming. If you've never, first off, you're already like, I'm gonna kind of like matrix into me in 2022. Like I was super overwhelmed. The whole thing seemed really scary. Like I liked riding my bike, but I've never done a 600K, let alone 1200. And so I think in all of this stuff and all the noise, just remember, it's actually really fun. Like it's actually kind of the coolest thing you can do. When you do these long rides, it's like the only thing that matters is eat, sleep, bike. It's the only time in my life that I've experienced where I literally get to turn off every other thing. Like I don't look at the news, I don't read emails, I'm not even talking to my family. Like I'm just doing this activity and it's amazing. Like that's why I keep doing these long rides. It's just so much fun. Now, it still hurts and there's long days and geez, do you think I wanna be on a bike at two in the morning? No, but like you need to remember that there is really a promise land in here and it's worth the effort. Just be open to experimenting the best way for you to feel like you have the confidence to get to the... - Right, yeah, so let me phrase it this way and you tell me if I'm wrong here. Some people will benefit by getting a coach because that coach will help them achieve that confidence level where they can go and do this event and not have things prevent them from having fun. - Yes, yeah. I mean, when you're well-trained, you can have fun. Like, geez, we were having a blast on this thing. We're like, it was fun because I wasn't suffering whereas I would see other people and they looked like they were miserable. And I was like, guys, we paid money to do this. Like this is a fun activity. And when you're well-trained, when you're well-fueled, it's fun. And to me, putting in the work ahead of time, the hay was in the barn, right? So I can just go and ride my ride and take it all in. - Yeah, so quick story from my experience. So this was in 2010 and 2010 was a year, like it was kind of a turning point for me. I had this failure in 2007 that I wanted to rectify and I'd done all of this work. I started in 2008 to get ready for PVP 2011. And in 2010, I had done the work to get to the point where when I was doing my 1,000K pre-qualifier, 'cause I wanted to be first in line to sign up, I felt like I had put in the work and I could, if I fell off for any reason from the group I wanted to be with, I could catch up. And sure enough, something happened. There was a crash and I was the last one to leave the crash waiting with this person until medical personnel showed up and my friends were ahead. And I didn't panic because I knew that, okay, I'm not gonna catch up to them in four pedal strokes. But if I just put my head down and go a certain pace and I can know what is that pace and what is too much of that pace, and sure enough, it wasn't many miles before I caught up to them. And I always felt at any given time that if something prevented me from sticking with that group that I wanted to be with for the moment, I had the physical training and I'm at a loss from words here but I always knew that I could just pedal back up. And that's what training, that's certainly what in 2019 having a coach gave me was the ability to, you know, I put in the work and I had seen the incremental progress and I knew what I was capable of. And so that's where, you know, like I took worry on the event out of the equation. So I was then able to do other stuff, like have fun. I was able to do other stuff like, oh wait, I saw this great scene back there, I wanna pedal back, get my camera out and take that photo instead of riding the rest of the ride, regretting not getting that photo. So that's what the training, that's why I got a coach, to be able to do this stuff, to be able to enjoy it and experience as much as possible. - Yeah, no. - So I have, as we wrap up here, I have five questions that I'm gonna ask you. - All right. - Get those up here. Okay, so, and I want you to answer these as quickly as possible and then we're gonna move on to the next question because I want your initial reaction to some of these things and you might feel like some of these are trick questions, but go with it if you will here. - Got it. - Okay, so number one, are you going to PPP 2027? - Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. - Yeah, the big yes there. Okay, describe the best bike for PPP. - Oh, my bike. - Okay. - No, right there, it's a Periposa steel bike with dynamo. - Okay, all right. Name one thing you can't do without on PPP. - Well, hummingbird fuels. - Okay, which control is the best? - Oh, gosh, I kind of forgot. The one that was on, is it multangela pesh, I think? I had like probably the best pasta dinner in my life there. - Oh, you're thinking of Vellana as well. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was awesome. That is outbound, right? - Yeah, yeah, I think so. It was like up a hill. I mean, it was like four in the morning. I don't know, it was great. - Yeah, okay. Favorite foods at the controls. You've mentioned the pasta bolognese. - The pasta was pretty solid. I didn't actually eat a lot of the food at the controls. I mostly went to McDonald's and Burger King. So that's also my kind of go-to, but yeah, the worst coffee of my life at the control. I'll tell you that much. - The worst? - Oh yeah, like absolutely disgusting. It was horrible. - All right, well, thank you for taking all this time tonight to answer my questions and to give information for people that might be considering approaching PPP with a coach or whether, you know, they want to just entertain the idea at all for that. So thank you so much. - Cool, thanks. - You betcha.