Karen Nutter

So welcome everybody to another PBP prep interview. We've got several of these already recorded and should be up and available in early April and this will join them. So today I wanted to have a chat with Karen Nutter about her experiences with Paris Bus Paris in the past. Karen has been to PBP twice and there's a number of questions that I'm dying to ask. So Karen, if you could just introduce yourself, tell us the region you ride with and the host club and then we'll get deeper into the questions. - Hi, I'm Karen Nutter. I ride with actually Brookshire Berets but also New England Randonnears. I started Randonnearing my first ride was the year before PBP 2015 and I got hooked. I did a 300K, I wanna sing in August and had, you know, done a little research about PBP and thought that's what I wanted to challenge myself within 2015. - So did you find out about PBP before you found out about berets or the other way around? - So I found the beret was the 300K and when I signed up for that, I had actually done the Great River Ride the year before and I had never even heard of Randonnearing prior to that. So I did the Great River Ride and chatting with people and they were telling me about Randonnearing and so the next year is when I did a little more research and said, oh, if I do a whole series, I can do PBP and that's, I found out about the berets first which led me with Randonnears riding that beret. - Okay, so the next question I wanna ask is what kind of riding were you doing that kind of led you to discover berets in the first place? - So I purchased a bike in 2012 to, I had been running and of course you get to an age you can't run anymore. So I purchased a bike and to do a charity ride and three day, 100 miles at which back then I thought was so incredible. You could ride three days, 100 miles a day and realized I kind of liked that and then I did it again the next year and then I'm like, okay, I wanna do something else because I love the charity riding but I wanna for myself challenge myself a little more and that's how I started Randonnearing and found out about Randonnearing and what I could do with Randonnearing. - Great, so when you first found out about PBP I wanted to delve into your reaction to the whole concept like did you think it was crazy or did you think that's the thing I've been looking for? - I did think it was crazy but I also think for me, it's a challenge I wanted to do like after reading about it and I'm reading people's blogs and everything, I'm like, okay, this is a good challenge. It's above and beyond a challenge for preparation and to actually ride it. But yes, you put your mind to something like that and it's a possibility. - So tell us a little bit about what's going through your head as you're riding your first 600K. - Oh, I can't even (laughs) So my first 600K, so when I signed up for 600K I was having the year before some knee issues and I didn't do, I did a full series before PBP, so 2015 but over the winter had to have some knee niscus repaired. So I wasn't in the best shape to do any climbing around here. So I went south, I went to Virginia, DC and Carolina. It was extremely difficult. But I found when you ride with your engineers, the group, they never kind of just, and they knew I was by myself and nobody ever really, I mean, I was by myself riding a lot but nighttime I found somebody to ride with and you chit chat with somebody, it keeps you going and the next day was a horrendous thunderstorm and all of us, it was the first like, oh, they actually hide under a church like rooftop. It was crazy. The second day riding, there was too far between controls and there was no stores and we had to like knock on somebody's door, some water and ice. It was like, okay, this is truly rendering to me outside of my typical realm, but it was fun and I thought, okay, this is what rendering is. You get by with however you can and you rely on other Randonneers too. - Yeah, so here in Northern California, one of the common food items that is set up at controls either intermediate ones or the finished control, it's fairly well known and as that relates to the camaraderie part, there's a phrase that come for the cup of noodles, stay for the-- (laughing) - That's funny. - Yeah. - So-- - I find it when you render near you eat things that you normally wouldn't eat when you're so-- - If you go out dressed in public in a way you would never dress. (laughing) So let's think back to both PrEP for 2015 and PrEP for 2019 and what kinds of rides did you do that best set you up for successfully finishing PDP? - So I did hire a trainer for 2015, which for me was the best choice. It was, that was taken off my shoulders of thinking about how much I had to ride, what type of riding I had to do from months before PDP. But doing the Bravais was actually, especially 2015. I mean, that was a learning curve for me to work from two to three to four to six. 2019 was a little different. I did a lot of, for me, riding the year before, a lot of Bravais the year before in 2018 and in 2019 prior to going. And I felt so ready by the time I got to PDP 2019. 2015, it was like, okay, I'm gonna give it a shot. But 2019, I didn't think I would do it again after 2015, I'm like, okay, I did it. I'm moving on. I'll still run to near, but not PDP, but 2018 came and I'm like, I can do it better. Like I know I can do better. I've learned and I keep learning. You keep learning as you go. I'm like, I wanna do it and do it better. - So did you find the experience in 2019 to be a brand new experience? - Oh, absolutely. - Great, yeah. - The time choice of leaving. I wanna delve into that pretty deeply, but there's a couple of other things I wanna circle back to. So you hired a trainer for 2015. One of the things that people might find by hiring a trainer is that what is also taken off your shoulders is figuring out what you have to do in order to put the building blocks together. So you don't have to think about constructing that and getting it wrong. So the trainer takes care of all that stuff. So I'm assuming that that was a big help for you too. - It was an extraordinary help because there's so much that goes into writing PDP. I mean, the lists I have, I do a 200 that year and I would make, write the list of everything I brought with me and then 300 and the list grew and it grew. And it's two pages, but I mean, down to tweezers in case something goes in my tire, but I also divided that into what goes in my front bag, what goes in my two bag, what goes in my rear bag. So by the time I got to PDP, I didn't have to think about it. I already had that. And that to me was enough that year where my trainer, all I had to do was read my piece of paper and say, today I have to go out for three hours and do three, two by 20s or ride at my endurance pace for however long. - Yeah, you know, my first experience with PDP in 2007, I found that my setup was completely not thought out properly and that really held me back a lot that kind of impeded me. So it's a good idea to think out where you're gonna put something and how easy it's gonna be to access it when you need it. I was just having a discussion with somebody the other day about, you know, the advantages and disadvantages of a top two bag, you know, right behind your stem and how, you know, if you have a saddle bag, it's kind of first in, last out. So you have to really think those out. And then you have to live with the fact that it's never gonna work out the way you pack a bag. - No, absolutely not. - Yeah. - Well, 2015, you know, exhaustion kids in 2015, I think I was in Iraq and my rear bag, I had tied at the last minute, at the last minute, it was a mistake. I went and grabbed a small bungee cord and hooked it on to make sure my bag was steady enough. And sure enough, drove off and you're tired and didn't hook it up about a mile down the road in my rear, I had to pick up my bike and walk a mile back and have the technician. And he looked at me like, oh, this isn't good. And he did look his time, you know, and those are the, you're unprepared for it, but you have mentally be, okay, it's okay. Like you put your time in, you know, as you divvy up your time associated with each stop. Okay, I'm good. I caught up with the last one, you know, timing is so crucial. - Yeah. So why didn't you pick a trainer for 2019? - No, I did. - Oh, you did. Oh, okay. Sorry, I missed that. - Okay. - Absolutely. - Both times it was the right thing to do. - It was fabulous. For me, I know some people can just go out and ride and it works for them. For me, I think I started riding late in my life and don't quite grasp everything that the body can or should do in order to be prepared for some time. So I did have a trainer both times. So let's talk about the differences between 2015 and 2019 for you. And in particular, I think you alerted yourself to the fact that there was something you wanted to say about what you did differently in 2019. And I believe it was the start groups that you chose. So tell us about how, so if I can tell tales about the school here, you did PVP 2015 and 88 hours. - Yes. - And then going into 2019, you chose the 84 hour group and you finished in 80 hours. So tell us about the thought process of going from one to the other and explain some of the differences. - I'm not a fast rider, but typically I can put my head down and just ride. It's okay. And I'm okay with that. Leaving at night for me, which I think a lot tougher, you are starting at night. So you think when you sign up for 90 hours, I'm like, well, I get there and I get there a few days early too. And then I'll nap that day before, well, that's impossible. You can't, you've got so much nerve, so many anxiety that it's not possible to actually nap. So you're behind, for me, behind the eight ball, just starting, exhaustion kicked in earlier than I would have ever thought. 2019, I left, you know, dawn was coming, it was a beautiful morning, off we went. And it was a whole different ride for me because nighttime, and I don't get a lot of sleep again, I'm not fast. Nighttime, I was sleeping. I wasn't riding from 12 to four or 12 to five. I was actually napping then, which I also avoided the cold I think in 2019 because of the terrible chill that everybody talked about. - Right, yeah. - But it was more on my clock, you know, riding. - So tell us about the differences in atmosphere. Did you give up anything with doing the 84 hour start over the 90 or? - No, I think I was, I just felt, I felt because I left in the morning, I felt stronger the entire ride. Now, I also learned from 2015 'cause I didn't do it as much, like when you're exhausted and you think your eyes are starting to get off your bike, lay down, take a nap, doesn't matter where it is, don't try it, I saw too many people wobbling, I saw a couple of terrible accidents from falling asleep on the bike. Just by 2019, I knew, get off the bike and take a nap, that's better for you than trying to ride through it. And because then you're slow, you're slower 'cause you're trying to stay awake, just get off your bike, lay on those cobblestones. - Yeah, right. - And it's amazing how refreshed you feel after doing that. - Yeah, so let's talk about your sleep breaks, the planned and unplanned. - So 2015, I didn't get a lot of sleep, I think. You know, I probably slept a couple hours at night here and there when I could. I slept twice on the side of the road and once it was drizzling out, so it wasn't great. There were a bunch of people that were sleeping, so I just joined in and slept with them and had my little blanket on me. 2019, I probably stopped other than my sleep times, three times where once it was a little chilly and I just stopped at one of the rest stops and put a blanket on and had some hot coffee, just put my head on the table and then twice on the cobblestones, just the side of the road, knowing I was safe and slept like a half an hour if I needed. And I didn't, I had enough time, like I knew I had enough time to do that, to refresh myself. - Right, so am I missing something? Did you have planned sleep breaks? Like did you get a hotel room somewhere or did you sleep in the gym? - So both times, so my husband came with me. He wasn't planning on being, the only time he was planning on being was at my rest stop, at my sleep stops. So I could sleep in the bar, but he enjoyed being at all the rest stops. So I would see him at everyone. Just, and he would have some food 'cause the food can get to you when your stomach's not used to eating some of the French food. So he might have gone to the grocery store and grabbed me something that he knows I would eat. Pepto-bismol is huge. Bring Pepto and bring a modium with you. But yeah, so I slept in the back of the car on the backseat of the car. - Ah, okay. - Could, you know, set my alarm for when I knew I had to get up and get rolling again. - So do you have an idea of how much time you slept during the whole 88 hours in 2015 and 80 hours in 2019? - In 2015, I don't recall, it wasn't a lot. If I got two to two hours at my three times, that was it. I mean, it was, but 2019, I was so much more organized. I got at least four, if not five hours of sleep three times. - In 2019. - In 2019. - Wow, wow, that's great. That's really good. - Made all the difference, and you could sleep because you were exhausted and it was dark out. It wasn't like that when you're trying to sleep. So. - So aside from the experience factor that you had at your disposal in 2019, were you the same kind of rider or were you a completely different rider in 2019 than you were in 2015? - Stronger and more confident in myself. - Ah, okay. - Definitely. - Yeah, did that come from doing the series the year before? - Yep, the berets and just riding the berets and really knowing what I need to do and how to do it. If something goes wrong, what you have to do to get through it and finish your beret. I mean, I did attempt a thousand up in Nova Scotia and didn't finish it. The wind was incredibly strong, but it was a learning experience. Like I knew I was by myself and it was nighttime and I just thought I'm never gonna make it to the next control and I called it, I just called it. And it's like those, you know, tough decisions, but it's a learning experience as opposed to a bad thing. You moved, okay, this is what I have to do next time. - So did you hear going into either 2015 or 2019, a lot of stories about PVP from people that you were riding berets with? - Yeah, yes. Not all good, you know, everybody has their take on it, but most of them were fun, you know, like never do it again or like, or I can't wait to do it again, depends on who you spoke to. And what you take, I learned you can't listen to everything and every piece of advice that's given 'cause that might not be the right advice for you. - Right, well, also at some point, they may be contradictory pieces of advice 'cause something that worked for somebody wouldn't work for somebody else, you know. - So what things on your first PVP, for example, were a complete surprise to you so that like nobody told stories about this and you just didn't expect to encounter this? - I don't think I have, I'm not sure. I think almost everything had been discussed or I had read about everything 'cause I did do a lot of research myself 'cause I didn't know any real, you know, where I live, randomness here. I think, you know, nobody can prepare you for the exhaustion. That in itself is the number one, you know, I think a lot of people can't finish or aren't able, they're just, it's exhaustion. And you, you know, you have to be able to get through that. - Right. - And sometimes you can't. I mean, that's why I said it's so important to know yourself and your own body. And again, I wrote by myself, I went by myself, wrote, you know, I knew people, but I was by myself, I didn't have a partner to ride with. So there's not a partner to suggest, hey, you look really tired, let's take a break. So you and yourself, you have to know. It's all on you if you go in single. - So what pieces of advice were you given ahead of 2015 that were vital? And what kind of advice would you now offer to somebody that's looking at PVP for the first experience in August this year? - What kind of advice did I get? Okay, 2015 was a long time ago. I think the timing and time management was what most people would suggest to me was like, make sure your timing is right and don't, you know, do that chart and do this. And, you know, which I did for me, but the time and time management and making sure your clothing is properly packed. Is it, you know, I hit rain that first 2015, the last day going in. So management, yeah, just towards the end, I know a lot of people finished before that, but it got cold and rainy and it was trying to get through that. So you have to make sure you're packed properly. - Time management, I think was the biggest. - So by time management, do you mean things like planning your peak efficiency through controls, for example? - Well, there's that. So like, you know, there's lines and you hear about the lines and it is what it is. So that went into my time schedule. Like I knew I'd be standing in line for this long and some are longer than others. And so that when you take a break, you might think you're only gonna stop for half an hour, but you better add another half an hour 'cause the bathrooms might be, and let's say a whole other thing. The bathrooms might be over there, but the lunch is over here and signing in is over here. So, and there's a lot of people. - So 2015 to 2019. Well, you did 90 and 84. If you were to do another one again, do you know which start group you'd pick? - 84, absolutely. - Okay, so firm believer in the 84 then. - That question. - All right. - That morning leaving. - Okay. And so we could safely say that 2019 was the right choice for you. - Yes. - Right, so. - I mean, 2015 was fun, but it was nervous and anxiety. But 2019, I just, I had fun. Like I knew I could do it. I knew, you know, this, a lot of times you jump on with people, but there's a lot of times you buy yourself. Like, and you think you won't be by yourself, but you won't, especially when it's dark and it's like, where's everybody? - Yeah. So you and I almost met in 2019 on PVP because I understand that on the first day at the 84 hour start, that you rode a lot with Ed and Mary from DC. - Yes, yes. - And you rode with them to wear. - Yeah, probably so. - Okay. And did you see them after that? - I don't know. I might have left before them. - Because Valaan is about where I picked up their wheel. I knew it at Ed and Mary from two previous PVPs. And I rode a lot with them in 2019. So I think I picked them up after Valaan. I know that I rode into Tintiniac with them and to Ludiac and then a lot of the second day, especially on the way back from breast and then a lot on the third day as well. But at that point, we kind of separated. So in looking at your times, you were easily one to two, two and a half hours ahead of me at a lot of the controls. - Okay. - Until Valaan on the return. - There's a reason for that. Did you sleep there? - No, I was having horrendous Achilles issues. - Ooh. - And so I got off the bike and could barely walk. And I knew I had to go into the medical facility. And they were so sweet. The nurse, not the doctor, but the nurse and then I was exhausted too. So I laid down and she goes, "We'll tape you up." And then they realized they had no tape. So somebody had to go, the pharmacy was closed. So then they had to drive even further. So I laid on the table and got my legs massage. But I had to be there for at least an hour, if not a year. And then they taped me up and I took a break. I ate something and took my time and then got on the bike. 'Cause I knew I had enough time. So sometimes it wasn't like I was in a rush at that point. I knew I was okay, time-wise. Needed my ankles to take care of, quite fully repaired. - That turned the tide for you? - Yeah. - Great. - They were never so sweet. I can't even tell, you know, the PVP personnel over there are amazing. - Yeah, right. - Long live the French country people. - Right, so there's a facet of PVP experience that I cannot convey to a certain group of people that are interested in that. And that's the experience of being a woman on PVP. Do you have any comments that you can share about that? - I don't think, I personally don't think it's any different than being a man. I think we're all there. I had many times men helped me. The end of 2019, these two Swedish guys came by and they told me, you know, hop on. And I don't know, when do you have 20 miles left? And I'm like, oh, you're way too fast for me. It's like, we'll wait for you. And they pulled me and we hooked up a whole bunch of other people, they just drove me right into the finish line. It was absolutely fantastic. And I don't believe it was 'cause I was a woman. I just believe like the more the merrier and that's how they felt. And by the end, it was the three to start. And by the end, I think we had like 10 people in our line. It was awesome. No, I don't think we're treated any differently. I think all randomness are equal and I feel we're treated that way. - Great. So talk about the experience in the little villages that we would pass through and the small towns that we would pass through. So how did that hit you? - 2015, because my time schedule, I was so nervous. Like I didn't stop as much as I think I should have. You know, I'd stop and get a loaf of bread and put it in my back jersey pocket and whatever. This time I stopped when I couldn't and had coffee, stopped on the side of the road. Lots of times there's kids on the side of the road. They just want to high five you and say hello. There's always, you know, one night, I don't even know where I was and I needed a caffeine. And there was a party going on. And I said, do you have a Coke? Like a Coke? And she's looking at me, Coke. She goes to Coca-Cola, I guess. And it was, they're ever so sweet and nice and they're there to help you and cheer you on. I mean, in the rain, they're out there in the rain cheering you on. It's amazing, amazing. I love that they love us there. - Yeah, yeah, I remember a few instances passing through small villages in the dead of night. And you might hear, you can't see them, but there are people like watching out the windows of their second story apartment and they're cheering you on. And then every once in a while, you hear these tiny little voices. Hello, hello, bon courage. - Oh, the little coffee shops that might be open in the middle of the night for you. - Right. - You know, you just like, oh, that's open. I'm going to stop for coffee. And then open just for the randomness coming through. It's awesome. It's just beyond belief yet. - So here's a tough question for you that you might not be able to answer. Do you think it's easier or harder to do, let's just say your 80 hour finish. Do you think you could do the same 80 hour finish in the 90 hour group? Or is it easier or harder to do that in the 84 hour group? Do you know what I mean? I'm getting out. - I do. And I'm not sure I could have starting at night. No, I'm not sure I could have done it in the eight. Had I started. - Right. - I don't. - Well, great. So here's another tough question. Are there any questions that I didn't ask you that you wanted to answer? - Oh, so no. My only, so 2015, everything was batteries. You know, I had all my batteries and my chargers by 2019. I had upgraded my bike and a generator hub. It was such a anxiety relief for me not to have to worry about the batteries and losing, you know, and having somebody see you without a light on it. Generator hub to me, it made my ride so much more relaxed knowing I had power when I needed it. I don't know, it doesn't slow me down at all. I know people who are fast, it's an issue, but it was such a, it just relieved me of that kind of worry. And it was, for me, it was huge. No stress. No stress. - I suspect there are other little facets of your preparation and kit that operate in just that same way. Like if you make this choice, you can stop thinking about all the other things that you would think about if you had done the alternative to that. Yeah, great. All right, well, thank you so much for taking the time to sit and take these questions from me and I appreciate that. - This was great. Thank you and bon bon to all the riders. - Right, the last question as we close out. (laughing) Is there another PVP in your future? I don't know in four years, a little bit also, we'll see. We'll see. I don't know. - Okay, all right. - It might not be PVP, it might be in the US. - Okay, well, thank you very much and thanks everybody for watching this video. - Take care, everybody. Take care and good luck. - Okay, and cut. Right, okay, so yeah, I think that went well and I don't think there's much in the way that I have to trim out. So this is great, maybe a minute at the end, minute or two at the beginning. Thank you so much. - Thank you, I'm glad you thought of, I know Eric gave you, but that's so nice that you did. - Yeah, yeah, so I've gotten a chance to ride with Eric a few times and I really like hanging around. - One in a million, honestly. - Yeah, and did you see the, are you on the PVP prep email list? - Yes, yes. - And so you saw his recent post. - Yes. - Where he's delving into the graves and the length of them and so that was phenomenal. - Yeah, I didn't find, and I know it's hilly PVP, but I don't, to me it's not a terrible, like the climbs aren't terrible,